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Senior Democracy Fellow Kiza Magendane is a guest in the podcast ‘Het Uur’ by NRC, where he spoke to Pieter van der Wielen about the importance of learning to listen to one another, empathy, and creating safe spaces for dialogue.
“People who know my work and read my book will see that I make a radical plea for humanity, citizenship and the rule of law. So I have very clear principles. But the fact that I have principles does not mean that I cannot put myself in someone else’s shoes.”
About the episode
Kiza Magendane describes the Netherlands as a home in which everyone must have a safe space to express their emotions and where people can work towards a shared future based on shared values. He wrote the book ‘Met Nederland in therapie’ (With the Netherlands in therapy). He talks to Pieter van der Wielen about how optimism is a conscious choice every day, and about how freedom of expression must always go hand in hand with listening. He shares the story of how he came to the Netherlands as a minor asylum seeker fleeing the war in Congo and how had to create a new world his own. He talks about how African migrants are called ‘free loaders,’ while Kiza sees them as pioneers — explorers who risk everything to discover what is on the other side. He shares the need for deeper conversations that go beyond the binary of pro- or anti-migration discourses and about redefining ‘Dutchness’ in the current zeitgeist.
Listen to the podcast (in Dutch) here to learn more about Kiza, his ideas, and his plans.